Yeah, and have some stupid money grabbing c**t like malcolm maclaren push extreme music to the fore? I think your perception of extreme music is somewhat stilted, and lyrically, bands like the Sex Pistols were being rebellious in a time where the world was a very different place than it is now - what did they actually say or do that changed things? Those bands slipped into a world where they were regarded as going against the grain, and quickly lapped up the publicity which NONE of them used wisely IF their agenda was to change things through their music - which it doesn't appear to have been.

Where's your mention of bands like Subhumans, GBH, Rudimentary Peni, Minor Threat and Crass for example???? These bands still have an effect and really DID say something of worth.

Harry mate.
I've been waiting for someone to say this, and its not easy answer. You could well be right about me being in entirely the wrong place.
But the NME is now just a kind of gossip rag featuring limp-wristed retro-rock. The NME forum - when I used to go there - and now seems to have dissappeared - is one of those chaotic affairs where everything moves too fast and nothing gets seriously discussed.
Kerrang - forget it.
Terrorizer - no forum.
Forums devoted to old bands like Joy division - rather dead and with no interest in debating the future.
Also, it strikes me that many different types of music have become lumped together under the EXTREME tag. Terrorizer have feature both Discharge and the Dead Kennedys in the past 2 years. And I've got several years of interest in Black metal anyway .... that's why I veer towards this kind of forum / mag.
Basically, I'm looking for people who I can relate to but ain't finding them (music-wise that is). Example - John Peel - surely he would see what I'm on about: I wanted to give my demo to Peely - I even made a CD cover just for him, based on his fave picture:

But - he died the day I finished it. 2 years work, aimed at him....

This is the source of the problem - the METAL side of extreme DOES NOT contain this will for change, the revolutionary spirit. Metal has always been a conservative thing. Fair enough. But the PUNK/NEW WAVE side of extreme is different. And I'm looking for that. If its there. A few years ago, I tried to convince myself that that spirit was in Black metal (I saw a link between bm and dark new wave) but I guess it ain't - bm is just another part of metal - conservative, non political.
I'm learning.
For me, "extreme" music has always been the music that makes things (something, anything) change. Historically this means Hendrix, The Pistols etc etc blah blah blah. Yes, they are old, but so what - imo, they are the ones that matter. Gotta get back to Jimi. Somehow.

You said:
"There are already a flottilla of very popular and non underground bands epousing your ideals, and writing for the hit parade."

I disagree. They are all backwards looking, utterly non-progressive. They are not heavy or edgy enough either. That last single by Manic Street Preachers was just DULL. They don't have the anger and fear of extreme music. If what I'm looking for does exisit, its here, not in the NME (or Kerrang). And if it ain't here, well, it looks like I'm on my own. I'll go away eventually if thats the way it is.
But why can't this forum tolerate - or even - dare I say it - ENTERTAIN - a different prespective?

And please, pretty please with sprinkles on top - stop saying that I don't know what I'm talking about.

Maybe we just don't WANT to 'beat' the mainstream into 'submission' or whatever you're on about. Maybe some us just don't really give a shit about your sanctimonious harpin' on...hard to believe I know.

Now if you don't mind, I'm gonna listen to Rage Against The Machine and don my Che Gueverra shirt. FIGHT THE POWER.

Ahem.

Will someone please ban this guy? Mate, although i am not adverse to other types of music, by coming on and trying to attach a great social or political meaning to these types of music takes away any strand of enjoyment, and what is left is just BOOOORRRRRRRIIINNNGGG shite! take the hint?